7V. The Ripest Apple (Ripest of Apples) [see also 8. Madam I have Come to Court You]
A. "The Ripest of Apples," from Mr. H. C. Mercer, of Philadelphia, and he describes it as a 'Down East' coast song from the neighborhood of Portland, Maine. JFSS 1900.
Ba. "The Ripest of Apples" from Journal of the Irish Folk Song Society, London - Volumes 1-10 - Page 28, 1904; collected and arranged by A. Corbett-Smith [no source given].
b. “The Ripest of Apples,” from Sam Henry, March 7, 1936 as published in Sam Henry's Songs of the People, p. 383 by Gale Huntington, Lani Herrmann- 2010 [no source given].
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[At the outer limits of the Died for Love family of songs is the stanza "Ripest Apple" or "Ripest of Apples" which has been found as:
1. A floating stanza in various Died for Love songs including "Love is Teasing" (Roud 1049), "Young Ladies" (Roud 451) and other relatives.
2. The first stanza of short songs titled "Ripest of Apples" which are made up of a few related stanzas. The related stanzas are associated with Roud 146 which has the "Water is Wide" or "Waly, Waly" (jolly boatsman) stanza found originally in the broadside "I'm Always Drunk." There is no Roud number for this rare version.
3. A stanza usually found in "8. Madam, I Have Come to Court You" which is Roud 542 and is known under a variety of names and variants. Two antecedent broadsides of "Madam, I Have Come to Court You" were collected by Steve Gardham which date 1760 and 1776.[1] The "Ripest Apple" stanza appears in the 1776 broadside under the title "A New Song" (Yonder Sits a Handsome Creature). The stanza usually comes near the end of all the variants of "Madam, I Have Come to Court You," although it has come first and been used as a title[2]-- causing confusion. No attempt will be made to explore the variants of "Madam, I Have Come to Court You" in any great depth here-- only the use of the floating stanza "Ripest Apple" as it's attached to that ballad will be pertinent to this study.
4. A floating stanza in other songs. Here are three examples: 1) "The Ripest Apple" in the Brown Collection of NC Folklore; 2) the print version, "The Jolly Sailor's Wedding;" 3) "I Drew my Ship into the Harbour," a hybrid song with opening stanzas from the Drowsy Sleeper family (see: study 2. The Drowsy Sleeper) and 4) "Ripest Apples Soon Will Grow Rotten (Ripest Apples)" a different song sung by Belle Luther Richards at Colebrook of New Hampshire for Helen Flanders, dated 07-16-1943.
Every appearance of the Ripest Apple stanza is not given in this study and only a few are used as examples of how the stanza has been varied. Since "Ripest Apple" appears as "Ripest of Apples," "Ripest Apples" and with a variety of other minor differences, only "Ripest Apple" will be used as a general term for the stanza or song. The lines used in the identifying stanza of the short fragment, "Ripest of Apples" (see number 2 above, also my A and B) are not necessarily the same in all stanzas of "Ripest of Apples."
The first extant appearance of the stanza is in a 1776 chapbook under the title "A New Song" (Yonder Sits a Handsome Creature). In the 1776 chapbook it is the 5th stanza and appears:
Ripest apples are the soonest rotten
Hottest love is the soonest cold
Young men's love is soonest forgotten
Maids take care be not too bold.
The "Ripest Apple" stanza is found in the songs categorized as Roud 542, a group of songs related to "Madam, I Have Come to Court You." They are lumped together and appear-- as "The Tarry Trousers," as "Twenty Eighteen" (named after the first words of the chorus), as "The Handsome Woman," as "Oh No, John," as "No Sir," as "Spanish Lady" and as a variety of other titles. A stanza from "Madam, I Have Come to Court You" dates the "Madam" song to the late 1700s in the US. In 1822 John Randolph of Virginia wrote his niece and asked if she had heard a ballad with the following verse that he had heard as a child[3]:
What care I for your golden treasures?
What care I for your house and land?
What care I for your costly pleasures?
So as I get but a handsome man.
The song is about an unattractive old man who who sees a beautiful young maiden in a garden and tries to court her by offering her gold, house and land but all she wants is a handsome man. The songs of Roud 542 are varied and should be separated. The "ripest apple" stanza is a secondary core stanza of "Madam" which sometimes appears near the end and is not always present. It represents the fleeting nature of beauty. Other examples of its use in this large song family will be presented later.
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Even though the "Ripest Apple" stanza dates back to 1776 in "Yonder Sits a Handsome Creature," it's unknown if there are other early print sources of this stanza. In the quite different song, my A, the "ripest apple" stanza is associated with the "jolly boatman" stanza which follows:
The seas they are deep, and I cannot wade them,
Nor have I, nor ever, the wings for to fly.
I would that my love were a jolly boatman
To ferry me over, my love and I.
Here's a variation of the "jolly boatman" stanza from "I'm Always Drunk and Seldom Sober," a song-sheet printed by John Pitts in London (Johnson Ballads 868) around 1820:
The seas are deep and I cannot wade them,
Neither have I wings to fly,
I wish I had some little boat,
To carry over my love and I.
With modification this stanza became the "water is wide" stanza published by Sharp[4] under the title "Waly, Waly," in the early 1900s. These two stanza form the fragment, Ripest of Apples found in Portland, Maine in the late 1800s[5] and also in Ireland about the same time[6]. The Maine version is a three stanza fragment that was collected from Miss Bichel by Mr. H. C. Mercer, of Philadelphia who called it "a 'Down East' coast song, from the neighbourhood of Portland, Maine[7]." Mercer added:
The adage seems to be used in many different ways, but there is little doubt that these three verses which Miss Bichel is going to sing to you are but a fragment of some longer ballad; as they stand, however, they make a very pretty song.
Here is the very pretty song, my A version:
The Ripest of Apples.
O the ripest of apples, they must soon grow rotten,
And the warmest of love, it must soon grow cold;
And young men's vows they must soon be forgotten,
Look out, pretty maiden, that you don't get controlled.
The seas they are deep and I cannot wade them,
Neither nor have I, the wings to fly.
But I wish I could find, some jolly, jolly boatsman,
To ferry me over, my love and I.
Oh I wish that me and my love was a sailin',
As far as the eye, could discern from the shore.
A sailin' so far, across the blue ocean,
Where no cares nor troubles, wouldn't bother us no more.
The last line of the "Ripest Apple" stanza is different. In the popular courting song the last line is standard, "Maids take care be not too bold." Now let's compare the "Ripest Apple" stanza found in "The Jolly Sailor's Wedding[8]," a print ballad dating back to the early 1800s:
Ripest apples, soonest rotten,
Hottest love, soonest cold;
Too fond maids are easy counselled
Though they're slighted when they're old.
The author of "The Jolly Sailor's Wedding" does not rhyme the third line and the last is also different. Let's look at the Ripest Apple stanza in a version of Love is Teasing by the Dubliners. The text was sung by Ronnie Drew as recorded in 1963 on the album "I Wish (Till Apples Grow)" by the Dubliners released 1964 (transcription R. Matteson 2017):
I wish, I wish, I wish in vain,
I wish, I wish, I was a youth again
But a youth again I can never be
Till the apples grow on an ivy tree.
I left me father, I left me mother
I left all me sisters and brothers too
I left all me friends and me own relations
I left them all for to follow you.
But the sweetest apple is the soonest rotten
And the hottest love is the soonest cold
And what can't be cured love has to be endur-ed love
And now I am bound for Americ-ka.
Oh love is pleasin' and love is teasin'
And love is a pleasure when first it's new
But as it grows older sure the love grows colder
And it fades away like the morning dew.
And love and porter makes a young man bolder
And love and whiskey makes him old and grey
And what can't be cured love has to be endur-ed love
And now I am bound for Americ-ka.
In this case the first two lines of Ripest Apple have been joined with a line from "What Can't Be Cured" and a different ending line (similarly found in "Tow hearts"). This version was covered by Marianne Faithfull and the Chieftains and similar stanzas were popular in Irish Pubs in the late 1950s and 1960s[9]. The Dubliners' song "I Wish (Till Apples Grow)" has also been titled, "Love is Teasin'." See also "7K. Love is Teasing," a song related to "I'm Always Drunk" (see Newfoundland versions, Love is Easin' and Keg of Brandy). The recent Irish versions of "Keg of Brandy," which originated from an arrangement by Robbie O'Connell[10], have the "Ripest Apple" stanza.
In Cecil Sharp's MSS[11] there is a Ripest Apple stanza in I Wish I were Some Little Sparrow (False True Lover). It was sung by two girls, December 26, 1907 in Knott County, Kentucky and was supplied to Sharp by Olive Dame Campbell. Here's the stanza:
The ripest apple soon are rotten,
The truest love is soonest cold;
A young man's vows are soon forgotten,
Pray my pretty little miss don't be too bold!
This is the same stanza found in "Madam, I Have Come to Court You" songs and is the best known "Ripest Apple" stanza. The same stanza opens a song collected by I.G. Greer that was published in Brown Collection[12]. There notes and text follow:
The title line of this occurs in a song of the general character of 'Waly waly, but love is bonny' reported from Maine (JFSS 145); otherwise it has not been traced.
'The Ripest Apple.' Reported by I. G. Greer, Boone, Watauga county, probably in 1915.
1 The ripest apple the soonest rotten.
The purest love the soonest cold.
A young man's words are soon forgotten;
Oh, my love, don't be so bold.
2 Let my name be kindly spoken
When I'm far away from you;
And, although the vows be broken,
I will fondly speak of you.
3 In the past we loved each other,
Loved each other fond and true,
And I know that I shall never
Love another as I loved you,
4 Though I wander on forever
Seeking lands beyond the sea.
Well I know that I shall never,
Never find the like of thee.
In this case Greer's "Ripest Apple" stanza has been attached as the first stanza to a 1877 song, "Let My Name be Kindly Spoken," by S. C. Upham.
In the 1882 book, "Northumbrian Minstrelsy" edited by John Collingwood Bruce, John Stokoe, the Ripest Apple stanza is given as part of the ballad " I Drew my Ship into the Harbour" which opens with stanzas from the Drowsy Sleeper family. Then comes a stanza of the Ripest Apple:
The ripest apple is soonest rotten,
The hottest love is soonest cold;
Seldom seen, is soon forgotten,
True love is timid, so be not bold.
Again, this is the stanza as found in the "Madam, I Have Come to Court You" songs. It is followed by a stanza unrelated to either song.
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My B version, a two stanza fragment of A, was collected in Ireland in the late 1800s and was published in the Journal of the Irish Folk Song Society, London, in 1904. Here is my B version with notes:
“The Ripest of Apples.”
Folk Song, Arranged by A. Corbett-Smith
I HAVE had this little song in my collection for some considerable time, and I regret that I have no note as to where it was collected. It is, I feel sure, of Irish origin, and so far as I remember it is one of those noted in America. In rendering Folk Songs such as this in which the opening verse is repeated at the end I have found it most effective to sing the last verse mezza voce and without accompaniment, merely striking the tonic chord pp at the close.
"Oh, the ripest of apples they must soon grow rotten,
And the warmest of love it must soon grow cold,
And young men's vows they must soon be forgotten;
Look out, pretty maiden, that you don't get controlled.
The seas they are deep, and I cannot wade them,
Nor have I, nor ever, the wings for to fly.
I would that my love were a jolly boatman
To ferry me over, my love and I.
(Third verse, repeat verse 1)
This version shows that A is probably Irish and descended from part of an earlier unknown print version in Ireland or the UK. Additionally another Irish version Bb, was reported by Sam Henry on March 7, 1936. It was published in Sam Henry's Songs of the People, p. 383 by Gale Huntington, Lani Herrmann, 2010. Henry's version is identical to B and no source was provided.
In 1911 a version of "Madam" was titled after the Ripest Apple stanza. It was collected from Hampshire gypsies by Alice Gillington and published in her 1911 book of gypsy songs titled, "Songs of the Open Road":
Ripe is the Apple Love
Ripe is the apple love, that soon will be rotten, love,
Hot is the love that will soon be cold,
Young man's beauty will soon be forgotten,
Maids take care be not too bold.
"O madam, O madam, I have gold and silver,
Madam, O madam, I have houses and land;
Madam, O madam, I've a world of treasure,
And to be at your command!"
What care I for the world of treasure,
What care I for the houses and land?
What care I for rings and silver,
So all I gain is a handsome man?
Handsome men are out of fashion!
Young women's beauty will not stay!
like the fairest flower in the midst of summer
It will die and fade away.
As a final example, here is a version titled Ripest Apples that was sung by Mabs Hall of Billingshurst, Sussex in 1987.
Ripest Apples
Ripest apples soon gets rotten,
Hottest love it soon gets cold.
Young man's love is soon forgotten.
Since the girls have been so bold.
Twenty, eighteen, sixteen, fourteen.
Twelve, ten, eight, six, four, two, none.
Nineteen, seventeen, fifteen, thirteen.
Eleven, nine, seven, five, three and one.
Though I never went to college, but I heard the poet say:
Twenty, eighteen, sixteen, fourteen, twelve, ten, eight, six, four, two, none.
This is another variant of a "Madam, I Have Come to Court You" song. It only has the "Ripest Apple" stanza and the "Twenty-Eighteen" chorus. In his notes Yates reports a similar version collected from the Copper family[13].
There are a large number of "Madam, I Have Come to Court You" songs-- most have the "Ripest Apple" stanza. One stanza common to "Madam, I Have Come to Court You" is the opening stanza of Wheel of Fortune:
“Round about the wheel of fortune,
It goes round and wearies me,
Young men's ways are so uncertain,
Sad experience teaches me!"
This shows another connection with the Died for Love extended family, although it has nothing to do with the Ripest Apple stanza. A different song titled Ripest Apples Soon Will Grow Rotten (Ripest Apples) was sung by Belle Luther Richards of Colebrook, New Hampshire for Helen Flanders on 07-16-1943. It's sung in a minor key and has an Irish pedigree[14]:
Ripest Apples Soon Will Grow Rotten
Come my friends and dear companions,
Come and run away with me;
For I have lost my own dearest jewel,
Clothed in mourning I must be.
When I'm asleep I'm dreaming about him,
When I'm awake I take no rest,
Must I cross the wide, cruel ocean,
To see the one that I love best.
His eyes are as clear as a crystal fountain
Cheeks as red as any rose;
Hair as black as any raven
And o'er his forehead hangs in curls.
I wish I had never seen him,
Never took me by my lily-white hand,
But now he's gained my heart's devotion,
Now I lie at his own command.
Ripest of apples soon will grow rotten,
Warmest of love will soon grow cold,
Young men's vows are soon be forgotten;
Say, pretty girl, don't be controlled.
This study has covered the short "Ripest of Apple" songs, the relationships with Waly Waly/I'm Always Drunk, appearances of the stanza in the Died for Love extended family of songs and other some other stanzas found randomly in other ballads and songs.
R. Matteson 2017]
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Footnotes:
1. "A New Song" is found as the last song in a group of three songs dated 1776 which are: 1) Montrose Lines, or, I'll ever love thee more; 2) Woo'd and Married and A'; 3) A New Song. The songs including 'A New Song' are from British Library, item 1346 m 7, Broadsides 1 to 42, this being item 29, 3 songs of which this is the third. Here's Steve Gardham's description of the volume: Large sheet music-size volume containing unusual broadsides, some set out as mid-18th century broadsheets, others as in the Brereton style of several slips together on one sheet. Most take a double page up and look as if they are enlarged copies of originals or else specially printed matter for collectors as most are very well finished and printed. Nearly all are fully dated with day/month/year 1775/6. No imprint though although the dating is very useful.
An earlier version without the Ripest Apple stanza is "The Lovely Creature" printed at Aldermary Churchyard by one of the Dicey/Marshall dynasty and is probably about 1760. It comes from British Library 11621 e 6, items 1 to 26, a variety of songsters mostly material sung at the various London pleasure gardens such as Vauxhall. Most of the songsters are the latest offerings and have about 20 songs in each songster. This one is from item 11 The Tom Tit Part 1, of 17 songs and this is the 4th song, 'The Lovely Creature.'
2. The first example of a "Ripest apple" title, "Ripe is the Apple, Love," was collected by Alice Gillington from Hampshire gypsies and published in her 1911 book of gypsy songs titled, "Songs of the Open Road." The Copper Family version is titled, "Ripest Apple" (see text immediately above). The recording is on VT115 (see last footnote). According to Steve Gardham the Roud master title for "Madam" somehow became "Ripest Apple," a secondary stanza-- I assume from these versions.
3. "John Randolph of Roanoke, 1773-1833: A Biography" by William Cabell Bruce - 1922.
4. "Oh Waly, Waly", from Cecil Sharp, Folk Songs From Somerset. Third Series, 1906, p. 32/33.
5. "The Ripest Of Apples," from JFSS by Fuller Maitland 1900, p. 45, note, p. 29; contributed by H. C. Mercer of Philadelphia sometime is the late 1800s-- no date given.
6. Corbett-Smith's version, published in Journal of the Irish Folk Song Society, London, in 1904, was "in my collection for some considerable time"-- dating it back to the late 1800s.
7. From JFSS article by Fuller Maitland 1900, p. 45, note, p. 29.
8. The Jolly Sailor's Wedding is found online in "Real Sailor-songs" edited by John Ashton. It appears in a chapbook published in Newcastle upon Tyne, about 1800 which it titled: Drowned mariner; or, the Low-lands of Holland hath twin'd my love and me. To which are added, the jolly sailor's wedding. The sporting hay-makers. Absent Jockey.
9. Roy Palmer (Everyman's Book Of British Ballads; London: Dent, 1980) gives a tune that he says was "popular in folk clubs which is where he first heard it." Steve Gardham also said he first heard the song sung in pubs in England in the 1960s.
10. Reported by WTV Zone and other online sources as arranged from tradition by Robbie O'Connell, Liam Clancy's nephew, and recorded on his 1987 album Love Of The Land, on Green Linnet Records, Danbury, Connecticut.
11. The MS version is at Cecil Sharp Manuscript Collection (at VWML) (CJS1/11/88) at the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library online.
12. From Brown Collection of NC Folklore III, about 1956 (online at Internet Archive).
13. In his notes for Veteran Recording VT115 Yates reports: In ‘The Copper Family Song Book - A Living Tradition’ (1995) Bob Copper, while relating to his family's version of this song, says that this was the shortest song Jim (Copper) knew and he had developed a terrific speed in the chorus ' … Twenty, eighteen, etc.', and thereby frequently qualified for the free pint of beer offered by the landlord of the local inn to be first man to sing a song." Mabs Hall version was collected by Mike Yates on VT107 Ripest Apples. Joe Copper's version was recorded in 1966 by Sedley.
14. Listen: https://archive.org/details/HHFBC_tapes_D37A