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Miller Boy/Old Man Living At The Mill/ Jolly Miller (English Version)
Traditional old-time and play-party song; US and England
CATEGORY: Fiddle and Instrumental Tunes DATE: 1788
OTHER NAMES: "Old Man Living at the Mill," "Jolly Miller;" "Jolly is the Miller"
RELATED TO: Bird's Courting-Leatherwing Bat; Turkey in the Straw (tune);
RECORDINGS: The Miller Boy [Me II-A 7] Meade gives only one old-time recording Jimmit Davis "The Miller Boy" 1932
Rt - Old Man at the Mill
Ford, Ira W. / Traditional Music in America, Folklore Associates, Bk (1965/1940), p254a
Lair, John (ed.) / 100 WLS Barn Dance Favorites, Cole, fol (1935), p94c
Newell, William Wells / Games and Songs of American Children, Dover, sof (1963/1909), p102/# 40 [1870s] (Happy is the Miller)
Mursell, James, et.al.(eds.) / Music Now and Long Ago, Silver Burdette, Bk (1956), p137
Durbin, Carl. Randolph, Vance / Ozark Folksongs. Volume III, Humorous & Play-Party ..., Univ. of Missouri, Bk (1980/1946), p293/#518A [1927/06/06]
Hastings, Dr. George E.. Randolph, Vance / Ozark Folksongs. Volume III, Humorous & Play-Party ..., Univ. of Missouri, Bk (1980/1946), p295/#518E [1942/01/06]
Hunter, Mrs. J. P.. Morris, Alton C. / Folksongs of Florida, Univ. Florida, Bk (1950), p221/#132 [1934-39] (Jolly Miller)
McDonald, Wilma. Randolph, Vance / Ozark Folksongs. Volume III, Humorous & Play-Party ..., Univ. of Missouri, Bk (1980/1946), p295/#518D [1941/10/06]
Revels Children. Wild Mountain Thyme, Revels CA 1094, Cas (1993), trk# B.06 (Jolly Is the Miller Boy)
Seeger, Pete;, Mike Seeger, and Larry Eisenberg. American Playparties, Folkways FC 7604, LP (1959), trk# B.04 (Jolly Is the Miller Boy)
Spradley, Isabel. Randolph, Vance / Ozark Folksongs. Volume III, Humorous & Play-Party ..., Univ. of Missouri, Bk (1980/1946), p294/#518B [1933/05/02]
Woodruff, Fred. Randolph, Vance / Ozark Folksongs. Volume III, Humorous & Play-Party ..., Univ. of Missouri, Bk (1980/1946), p294/#518C [1941/12/12]
Jolly Miller
Rt - Miller of Dee ; Buchan Miller
Mf - Drumdelgie
Pb - Jolly Grinder
Uf - Miller Boy
Glassmacher, W. J. (ed.) / Songs for Children, Amsco, fol (1934), p101
Botsford, Florence Hudson (ed.) / Universal Folk Songster, Schirmer, Sof (1937), p144
Linscott, Jennie Hardy. Linscott, Eloise Hubbard (ed.) / Folk Songs of Old New England, Dover, Bk (1993/1939), p220 [1920-30s]
Strachan, John. Folk Songs of Britain. Vol 3. Jack of All Trades, Caedmon TC 1144, LP (1961), trk# A.10 [1950s]
Strachan, John. Kennedy, Peter (ed.) / Folksongs of Britain and Ireland, Oak, Sof (1984/1975), #229, p514 [1951]
SOURCES: Mudcat; Brown Collection; Indiana Play Party Songs; JOAFL
NOTES: Kuntz briefly lists: MILLER BOY. Old-Time. DDad tuning.
This song is related to 'Turkey in the Straw,' 'Old Zip Coon,' and 'Natchez Under the Hill' according to notes to Turkey in the straw in Fiddle Tunes of the Old Frontier:
"All these American cousins, together with others such as the play-party song "Jolly Is the Miller," seem to be derived from an eighteenth-century British air often called "The Rose Tree."
Clint Howard sings a version 'The Old Man at the Mill' on 'The Original Folkways Recordings of Doc Watson and Clarence Ashley' Smithsonian/Folkways CD SF 40029/30 with similar lyrics used by the Dillard's. The raven verse is the same as that given by Dave except the raven says 'if I was a young man'. I thought that stanza had shades of 'Leather-winged Bat' - of which I am most familiar with John Koerner's version - and that was confirmed by the notes to the Smithsonian CD. Rinzler writes that the 'Old Man at the Mill':
... is a happy combination of two separate songs: a wellknown party piece 'The Jolly Miller', and 'The Bird Song' or 'The Leather-winged Bat'. An 1883 version of the former is reported by Newell (pp102-3) and both Botkin and Randolph include it in their collections. 'The Leather-winged Bat' can be found in Lomax's 'Folksong USA, and Sharp provides two modal tunes and humorous verses for 'The Bird Song' in the second volume of his 'English Folksongs in the Southern Appalacians'.
BIRDS COURTING- Frank C Brown Collection of North CArolina Folklore under the heading "Birds Courting:"
In came the owl with his head right white:
'Lonesome day and a lonesome night.
I thought I heard some pretty girl say,
"Court all night and sleep next day"'
In come the lonely turtle dove:
'That is not the way to keep her love.
If you want to gain her heart's delight
Keep her up both day and night.'
Up stepped the sparrow as he flew:
"If I was a young man I'd have two;
If one forsake me and from me go
I'd still have a string to my bow, bow, bow.'
IN another version the second verse is:
'Oh' said the raven as he flew,
If I'd been a young man I'd have two;
One might forsake me and the other might go,
Still I'd have a string to my bow, bow bow.
The connection of these verses to "Leatherwinged Bat" is pretty obvious. The Brown collection includes a couple other lyrics that appear to be only tenuously connected to the above.
Said the sparrow in the grass,
'I wish I had my bottle and glass
And my true love to drink with me;
then oh, how happy I would be.
Said the lonesome lonesome dove,
'I'll tell you a better way for to gain her love;
Keep her up all night and all the next day
And never give her time to say "Go'way!"
Long came a jay bird, hoppin in the grass,
With his bottle and his glass.
'Say fine lady, won't you drink with me?
Oh how happy we will be!'
Whoop-dy doopty went the old owl, sittin on a limb
Learning how to tailor so as to cut him out a coat;
Every fine lady he saw pass by
Nod his head and wink one eye.
Says the redbird to himself,
'Meat and bread upon the shelf;
Wouldn't be afraid, bet my life,
Fetch her home to be my wife.
THE DUSTY MILLER- Florence Warnick, 'Play-Party Songs in Western Maryland,' The Journal of American Folklore, Vol 54, No. 213/214 (July-Dec., 1941), p.163
There was an old man who lived by the mill
The wheel goes around with a good free will
One hand on the hopper, the other on a sack
The ladies go forward, but the gents turn back.
Notes: "Botkin, pp. 47, 250 calls this 'The Miller Boy,' an accretionary dance song, and traces it back to the seventeenth century. See also Randolph, p. 145; Wolford, pp. 67-68. 'Dusty Miller,' an old song improved by Robert Burns, has no relation to this dance song." (p.163)
"The play-party songs given below were used in Garrett Co., Maryland. Members of the Protestant churches were not allowed to dance, but there was no bar to their playing swinging games, some of which were not very different from square dances. In the small, backwoods community where the writer was reared, we often had no musical instruments, and almost everyone made an effort to sing the songs which we danced or played . . . ." (p.162)
From the Ballad Index . . . .
Miller Boy, The (Jolly is the Miller I)
DESCRIPTION: Playparty: "Happy is the miller boy who lives by the mill, The mill turns around with its own free will, Hand on the hopper and the other on the sack, Lady keeps a-going, gents turn back." Other verses about courting, milling, weather
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1719? (Pills to Purge Melancholy) (American version 1916/Wolford)
KEYWORDS: playparty nonballad miller
FOUND IN: US(Ap,MA,MW,SE,So)
REFERENCES (4 citations):
Randolph 518, "The Miller Boy" (5 texts, 2 tunes)
BrownIII 75, "The Miller Boy" (3 one-stanza fragments)
Hudson 153, pp. 300-301, "The Jolly Miller" (1 text)
DT, OVRHILL5*
Roud #733
RECORDINGS:
Pete Seeger, "Jolly is the Miller" (on PeteSeeger22) (on PeteSeeger33, PeteSeegerCD03)
Notes: Wolford traces this piece back to Pills to Purge Melancholy, and Randolph reports that Gomme has English versions. But they don't look like the same item to me. - RBW
Old Man at the Mill, The
DESCRIPTION: "Same old man, sitting at the mill/Mill turns around of its own free will...ladies go forward and the gents fall back." This is followed by floating verses, many taken from "The Birds' Courting Song (Leatherwing Bat)"
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1962 (recording, Clint Howard et al)
KEYWORDS: courting floatingverses nonballad playparty
FOUND IN: US(SE)
Roud #733
RECORDINGS:
Clint Howard et al, "The Old Man at the Mill" (on Ashley02, WatsonAshley01)
CROSS-REFERENCES:
cf. "The Bird's Courting Song (The Hawk and the Crow; Leatherwing Bat)" (floating lyrics)
Notes: This certainly shares a good deal with "The Birds' Courting Song (Leatherwing Bat)," but there are enough differences that I have split them. - PJS
Roud, interestingly, lumps it not with that song but with "The Miller Boy (Jolly is the Miller I)," presumably on the basis of the first verse. The result may well be a complex composite of the two. - RBW
(From: Michael Morris) Out of 77 references in the Roud Index, most are North American, but there are a sizeable number from Britain. The earliest collected ones seem to date only to the late nineteenth century, but given the wide distribution - from the Isle of Wight and Cornwall all the way up to north-east Scotland (where I assume the Grieg-Duncan text was collected) - it's likely the rhyme is considerably older.
Just as 'Miller Boy' seems to be the most common North American title, 'Jolly Miller' is far and away the most common British title:
'JOLLY MILLER' (England, 1985)
Opie, The Singing Game (1985) pp.314-316
'JOLLY MILLER' (nine versions from around England)
Gomme, Traditional Games of England, Ireland & Scotland 1 (1894) pp.289-293
'JOLLY MILLER' (England)
Gomme & Sharp, Children's Singing Games 2 (1909) pp.6-8
'JOLLY MILLER' (England : Yorkshire : Bradfield, 1907)
R.A.A. Gatty MS collection (Birmingham Ref Lib 661164 11R 20) n/bk 3 p.31 / n/bk 2 p.17
'JOLLY MILLER'
Cecil Sharp MSS, Folk Tunes p. 1705 (England : Derbyshire : Winster, 1908)
'JOLLY MILLER'
Kerr's Guild of Play (1912) p.3 (versions a & b) (Scotland?)
'JOLLY MILLER' (England : Hampshire)
Gillington, Old Isle of Wight Singing Games (1909) p.7
'JOLLY MILLER' (England : Northumberland : Cambo, 1920s)
Bosanquet, In the Troublesome Times (2nd edn. 1989) p.130
'THERE WAS A JOLLY MILLER' (Scotland)
Greig-Duncan MSS (Gm 2.126c)
'JOLLY MILLER' (England : Yorkshire : Sheffield)
Northall, English Folk-Rhymes (1892) p.366
'JOLLY MILLER" (England)
Yeatman & Hall, On the Green (1894) p.17
'JOLLY MILLER" (England)
Hinkson, Victorian Singing Games (1991) p.12, 25
'JOLLY MILLER' (England, I believe)
Kidson, 100 Singing Games (1916) p.115
'THERE WAS A JOLLY MILLER' (England, I believe)
Hornby, The Joyous Book of Singing Games (c1913) p.60
'JOLLY MILLER' (England)
Walter, Old English Singing Games (1926) p.30
'JOLLY MILLER' (England)
Holbrook, Children's Games (1957) pp.100-101
Previous source: Sharp, Children's Singing Games
'THERE WAS A JOLLY MILLER' (England : London)
Douglas, London Street Games (2nd edn., 1931) p.41
'JOLLY MILLER' (England : Cornwall)
Courtney: Folk-Lore Journal 5 (1887) pp.57-58
Related to 'Turkey in the Straw,' 'Old Zip Coon,' and 'Natchez Under the Hill' according to notes to Turkey in the straw in Fiddle Tunes of the Old Frontier
"All these American cousins, together with others such as the play-party song "Jolly Is the Miller," seem to be derived from an eighteenth-century British air often called "The Rose Tree." This lineage is discussed, and many variants are listed, in the notes to American Fiddle Tunes." (Library of Congress, AFS L62). From Derbyshire . . . .
There was a jolly miller and he lived by himself
As the wheel went round, he made his wealth
One hand was in the hopper, the other in the bag
As the wheel went round he made his grab.
Source: Robert Charles Hope, 'Derbyshire and Cumberland Counting-Out and Children's Game-Rhymes,' The Folk-Lore Journal, Vol 1, No. 12 (December, 1883), p.385
A nearly identical verse was collected in Sussex around the same time . . . .
THE JOLLY MILLER
There was a jolly miller who lived by himself
As the wheel went round he made his wealth
One hand on the hopper and the other on the bag
As the wheel went round he made his grab.
Source: Miss Allen, 'Children's Game Rhymes,' The Folk-Lore Record, Vol 5 (1882), p.86
The Miller Boy- Brown Collection:
This is perhaps the oldest and most widely known of the playparty songs. For English texts see Lady Gonime's Traditional Songs I 289-93 and Northall's English Folk-Rhymes 366. and for references to American texts Botkin's The American Play-Party
Song 247-52 and the McLendon finding list in SFLQ viii 209, adding Virginia (FSV 22/) and the Ozarks (OFS iii 293-5). It is represented in our collection only by the opening stanza.
A. 'The Miller Boy.' Reported by Thomas Smith of Zionville, Watauga county, as obtained from Miss Mae Smith.
Oh, the miller boy that tends to the mill
He takes the toll with his own free will.
One hand in the hopper and the other in the sack-
The ladies step forward and the gents step back.
B. 'Miller Boy,' From Ethel Brown, Catawba county.
Happy is the miller that lives by the mill.
The mill ttirns around and gains what it will.
Hands in the hopper and hands in the sack —
Ladies step forward and the gents step back.
C. 'Little Johnny, Miller." A manuscript in Dr. Brown's hand, with the query 'G. S. Black?' This is repeated in another hand with the manuscript:
Little Johnnie Miller he worked at the mill.
He worked all day, no matter what you will.
With a hand in the hopper and the other in the sack.
The ladies keep a-going while the gents turn back.
Happy is the miller that lives by the mill,
The mill turns around and gains what it will.
Hands in the hopper and hands in the sack-
Ladies step forward and the gents step back.
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