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Charming Betsy/She Gets There Just The Same
Bluegrass and Old-Time song and fiddle tune;
ARTIST: Georgia Organ Grinders 1929 vocal w/fiddles
Listen: Georgia Organ Grinders; Charming Betsy 1929
Listen: Mr. and Mrs Stankewitz; Charming Betsy 1941; Voices from the Dust Bowl: The Charles L. Todd and Robert Sonkin Migrant Worker Collection, 1940-1941
DATE: Circa 1880 First recording Fiddlin' John Carson 1925.
OTHER NAMES: Rockhouse Gambler; She Gets There Just The Same; Gambling Blues; Rock House Gamblers
RECORDING INFO: Acuff, Roy. Steamboat Whistle Blues (1936-39), Rounder SS023, LP (1985), trk# 9 [1936/10] Fink, Cathy;, Duck Donald and Peter Paul Van Camp. I'm Gonna Tell, Likeable 02, LP (1980), trk# 13 Georgia Organ Grinders. Work Don't Bother Me: Old Time Songs from North Georgia, Rounder 1035, LP (1986), trk# B.04 [1929/04/10] Jenkins, Snuffy; and Pappy Sherrill. Snuffy Jenkins. Pioneer of the Bluegrass Banjo, Arhoolie 9027, CD (1998/1962), trk# 6 Ledford, Lily May. Banjo Pickin' Girl, Greenhays GR 712, LP (1983), trk# B.09 Limeliters. Sing Out!, RCA (Victor) LPM-2445, LP (1962), trk# B.01 Norris, Land. Mountain Banjo, Songs and Tunes, County 515, LP (1968), trk# A.02 [1925/04] Painter, Fred. Randolph, Vance / Ozark Folksongs. Volume III, Humorous & Play-Party ..., Univ. of Missouri, Bk (1980/1946), p186/#436 [1941/09/27] Putnam String County Band. Home Grown, Rounder 3003, LP (1973), trk# 12 Sexton, Lee "Boy". Whoa Mule, June Appal JA 051, LP (1987), trk# 1 Stanley, Ralph. Banjo Newsletter, BNL, Ser (1973-), 1984/11,p22 Tenenbaum, Molly. And the Hillsides Are All Covered with Cakes, Cat Hair, Cas (1994), trk# 4 Thomas, Henry (Ragtime Texas Henry). Texas Worried Blues, Yazoo 1080/1, LP (1989), trk# 20
NOTES: "Charming Betsy" is very old and an excellent example of a song shared by both black and white traditions. For a discussion of it in the white tradition see chapter 8 of Gene Wiggins 'Fiddlin' Georgia Crazy: Fiddlin' John Carson, His Real World and the World of His Songs' and, for the black tradition, chapter 3 of Paul Oliver 'Songsters & Saints'.
Louise Rand Bascom, in an essay in the Journal of American Folklore Apr-June 1909, dated the song back into the 19th century. There is a possible link with a civil war song about a Castle Thunder, a provost prison in Virginia. In the white tradition, the song has links with songs like 'Coming Round the Mountain', 'She Came Rolling Down the Mountain' and '[Come on Down the Mountain]Katy Daley'. What Wiggins describes as the 'descending hierarchy' - rich gal, poor gal, my gal - with the tag, 'but she [does something] just the same' is paralleled with 'white girl, yellow girl, black girl' and 'yellow girl, brown girl, black girl' and, in some folksongs 'June bug, lightning bug and bedbug'.
CHARMING BETSY- Published in 1909 Bascom
1. I'm comin' round the mountain, charmin' Betsy,
I'm comin' round the mountain, *'fore I leave.
An' if I never more see you,
Take this ring, an' think of me.
2. An' wear this ring I give to you,
An' wear it on your right han',
An' when I'm dead an' forgotten,
Don't give it to no other man.
*mishearing of Cora Lee
Early recordings were made in the 20s by white artists such as Fiddlin' John Carson, Land Norris and the Georgia Organ Grinders and by black artists such as Jim Jackson and Henry Thomas. In his 'Conversation with the Blues', Oliver says that it was one of the first songs ever learned by Gus Cannon, but he did not record it until much later. In the Brown Collection, there are two versions of 'White Gal, Yaller Girl, Black Gal' in which the final stanza about 'charming Betsy' is classified by the editor as 'intrusive'. The last 2 stanzas of one of these, collected in 1914 go:
Oh, a yaller gal, she wears a hobble skirt
Brown gal, she does the same
Black gal wears a old Mary Jane
But it's a hobble just the same
Oh, coming round the mountain, charming Betsy
Coming round the mountain, Cora Lee
If I die before I wake
Do, gals, remember me
[Wiggins p169]
Billy referred above to its popularity among jug bands, but it has turned up in almost every style of music. For example, you can find it in rockabilly. My favourite there is a thumping garage version by a very young Terry Clements and the Tune-Tones for Jay Miller in Louisiana under the title of 'She's My Baby Doll'. You can find that on 'The Legendary Jay Miller Sessions Vol 18: The Girl in the Tight Blue Jeans'.
Wiggins' discussion of the song is quite extensive. Of particular interest is his comment that, in his research, it is the only version he unearthed that seems to have no comic intent. In the second stanza, 'she's' in lines 2 and 4 are John's pronunciation for 'she was'. A printed version of the song, collected in 1909, escapes the 'problem' of having 2 women by substituting ''fore I leave', but practically all versions provide a 'Cora Lee'. The warning against 'marrying a railroad man' probably relates to a time in the mountains when rivalry existed between railroad men and local boys, particularly for women's favours. I like Wiggins' comment about 'ball and chain', a line that is common in folksong: 'It makes a good strong line for a stanza. Anyone who finds a ball and chain on him or her has experienced what students of Aristotle call "reversal of fortune"'. The following is also of interest:
That Betsy may have acquired the ball and chain for running illegal whisky is suggested by John's saying she was 'running' on the train where we should expect him to say she was 'riding' on it. T.S. McCamy, writing from Dalton, Georgia, in 1914, said the song was composed by a moonshiner whose still was discovered by the revenuers. Betsy stood off the officers until he got away, but she was captured. The 'heartless and ungrateful lover', according to McCamy, was making light of Betsy in the song. John could have known such a story, but I am sure he did not see the song as expressing any such attitude. [Wiggins p 168]
Part of the verse form and melody of "Charming Betsy" is found in the minstrel song, "Do Come along, Ole Sandy Boy," "Negro Singers' Own Book," 1846(?), p. 309, and another minstrel song, "Uncle Gabriel" (see Newman I. White, 1928, "American Negro Folk Songs," p. 234 and 316-317).
"Charming Betsy" itself seems to have been a fragment of a separate song, joined as a chorus to the minstrel song.
The first minstrel forms concerned animals:
Mr. Coon he is a mighty man,
He carries a bushy tail,
He steals old massa's corn at night,
And husks it on a rail.
De mink he is a mighty thing,
He rambles in de dark;
The only ting disturbs his peace
Is my old bull dog's bark.
(Negro Singers' Own Book, p. 309, 1846.
In "Christy's Nigga Songster," 1850, verses about Blacks were added, e. g.,
Nigga's hair am berry short,
White man's hair am longer,
White folks dey smell berry strong,
But niggas they smell stonger.
White reported verses from "Negro actors in a small show," Auburn, Al, c. 1915:
Well a white lady wears a hobble skirt,
A yaller gal tries to do the same,
But a poor black gal wears a Mary Jane,
But she's hobbling just the same.
(see post by Stewie, above)
Well a white lady sleeps in a feather bed,
A yaller gal tries to do the same,
But a poor black gal makes a pallet on de floor,
But she's sleeping just the same.
(see post by Michael Morris, above)
"Charming Betsy" may be an entirely different song that has been added to the minstrel verses posted here; related more to "Comin' Round the Mountain.".
In 1908, Louise Rand Bascom, JAFL Vol. 21, No. 84, p. 246, quoted this fragment:
CHARMING BETSY
1. I'm comin' round the mountain, Charmin' Betsy,
I'm comin' round the mountain, 'fore I leave,
An' if I never more see you,
Take this ring, an' think of me.
2. An' wear this ring I give you,
An' wear it on your right han',
An' when I'm dead an' forgotten,
Don't give it to no other man.
This song also appears in Brown, North Carolina Folklore, as "All Round the Mountain" or "Charming Betsy."
It's all 'round the mountain, charming Betsy,
It's all 'round the mountain, Cora Lee;
And if I never more see you,
Dear love, remember me.
(verse with music in Brown, vol. 5, "The Music of the Folk Songs," ed. J. P. Schinhan, pp. 180-181.
Johnny Carson or other recorded singer may have married the lyrics of the two songs.
The two are joined in Vance Randolph, "Ozark Folksongs," vol. 3, no 436, p. 185-186:
Chorus: She'll be comin' round the mountain, charmin' Betsy,
She'll be comin' round the mountain, Cora Lee,
Oh if I never see you any more
Just look at my ring an' think of me.
1. A rich man lives in a big brick house,
A poor man does the same,
I live down in the old county jail,
Lord, a brick house just the same!
2. A rich girl drives a big limmerseen,
A poor girl does the same,
My girl drives a model-T Ford,
Lord, she's ridin' just the same!
Sung by Mr. Fred Painter, Galena, MO, 1941. "The first stanza is used as a chorus, being repeated after each of the other verses."
Listen: Mr. and Mrs Stankewitz; Charming Betsy 1941; Voices from the Dust Bowl: The Charles L. Todd and Robert Sonkin Migrant Worker Collection, 1940-1941
Rich gal drives a big limmerseen,
Poor girl do the same,
My gal she rides in a T model Ford,
Lord, she's ridin' just the same!
CHORUS: She'll be coming round the mountain, charming Betsy
She'll be coming round the mountain, Cora Lee
If I never get to see you again,
Good Lord, remember me.
Rich gal sleeps in a feather bed,
Poor gal does the same,
My gal sleeps on a pallet on the floor,
But she's sleeping just the same.
Rich gal lives in a big brick house,
Poor gal do the same,
I live down in the old county jail,
Lord, a brick house just the same!
Here is Fiddlin' John Carson's version. It is interesting to reflect that the percentage of folksongs, both 20th century and pre-20th century, in Fiddlin' John's repertoire was greater than that in Uncle Dave Macon's.
CHARMING BETSY- Fiddlin' John Carson
Source: transcription in Gene Wiggins 'Fiddlin' Georgia Crazy: Fiddlin' John Carson, His Real World and the World of his Songs' Uni of Illinois Press 1987, p 166-167.
Fiddlin' John Carson 'Charming Betsy' Okeh 40363. Recorded in Atlanta, Georgia, 15 April 1925.
Oh, I'm going round the mountain, Charming Betsy
I'm a-going round the mountain, Cora Lee
If I never no more for to see you
(It's) Pray, Lord, remember me
The first time I saw Charming Betsy
She's a-running on that eastbound train
And the next time I seen Charming Betsy
She's a-wearing the ball and chain
[This next stanza is also repeated after remaining stanzas as a chorus]:
Goodbye, Miss Charming Betsy
Goodbye, little Cora Lee
If I never no more for to see you
Pray, Lord, remember me
Sometimes I live in the country
Sometimes I live in town
Sometimes I have a great notion
For to jump in the river and drown
Take these here rings that I give you
To wear them upon your hand
If I never no more for to see you
Don't you marry no railroad man
CHARMING BETSY- Georgia Organ Grinders 1929
[fiddle intro]
Oh the hen and the rooster lived out west,
(Lord remember me)
The hen says, "Rooster I love you best,"
(Lord remember me).
Oh the rooster says, Hen you're telling a lie,"
(Lord remember me)
"Caught you in the alley with a big Shanghi,"
(Lord remember me).
CHORUS: Going round the mountain, Charming Betsy
Well I'm goin' round the mountain, Cora Lee
And if I never see you anymore
Well it's, good Lord remember me.
[fiddle]
Oh Adam and Eve in the garden one day,
(Lord remember me)
Now Eve wore a fig leaf so they say,
(Lord remember me).
Oh Adam stood with his back to the wall,
(Lord remember me)
Waitin' for *that leaf to fall,
(Lord remember me).
CHORUS
[fiddle]
*those leaves
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