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Tell Old Bill/This Morning, This Evening, So Soon/Sugar Babe/Baby Mine/Crawdad Song/
Old-time Bluegrass song, widely known.
ARTIST: From American Songbag, Sandburg. " Carl Sandburg first heard this grim blues-ballad from Nancy Barnhart of St. Louis back in the 1920s. Ten years later, folklorist and singer Sam Hinton came across an African American farmer in Walker County, TX who sang another version. And in the late 1950s, Bob Gibson introduced "Tell Old Bill" to a wider audience when he recorded an interpretation of Sandburg's version.”
CATEGORY: Fiddle and Instrumental Tunes
DATE: 1920's Related to “Baby Mine” Words Charles Mackay; Music Achibald Johnson in 1874.
RECORDING INFO: How Many Biscuits Can You Eat?/ This Morning, This Evening (So Soon/Right Now) Coon Creek Girls. Early Radio Favorites, Old Homestead OHS 142, LP (1982), trk# 3; Coon Creek Girls. Old Time Herald, Old Time Herald, Ser, 3/6, p44(1992) [1940s]; Foster, Gwen (Gwin/Gwyn/Guinn). Early Rural String Bands, RCA (Victor) LPV-552, LP (1968), trk# 14 [1939/02/05] ; Freight Hoppers. Where'd You Come From, Where'd You Go?, Rounder 0403, CD (1996), trk# 14; Howard, Clint. Looking off Down the Road, Old Homestead OHS-80060, LP (1983), trk# 5; Jones, Grandpa. 24 Great Country Songs, King 967, LP (1975), trk# A.06; Mother Logo. Branching Out, Legend SG 5005, LP (1986), trk# A.02; Pleasant Family. Old Time String Band, Pleasant --, CD (2005), trk# 17 (Bisquit Song); Stringbean (David Ackerman). Stringbean and His Banjo. A Salute to Uncle Dave Macon, Starday SLP 215, LP (1963), trk# 7; Wiseman, Mac. 20 Old-Time Country Favorites, Rural Rhythm RHY-258, CD (1997/1966), trk# 7
RECORDING INFO: Tell Old Bill Lomax, John A. & Alan Lomax / American Ballads and Folk Songs, MacMillan, Bk (1934), p.100 [1920s] (Old Bill) Leisy, James F. (ed.) / Hootenanny Tonight!, Gold Medal Books, sof (1964), p147 (Tell Old Bill) Sandburg, Helga (ed.) / Sweet Music, Dial, Bk (1963), p 45 (Tell Old Bill) Barnhart, Nancy. Sandburg, Carl / American Songbag, Harcourt Brace Jovan..., Sof (1955/1928), p 18 (Dis Mornin' Dis Evenin' So Soon) Carawan, Guy. This Little Light of Mine, Folkways FG 3552, LP (1959), trk# A.04 (Tell Old Bill) Carawan, Guy. Asch, Moses (ed.) / 124 Folk Songs as Sung and Recorded on Folkways Reco, Robbins Music, Fol (1965), p105 (Tell Old Bill) Carolina Tar Heels. Carolina Tar Heels, Folk Legacy FSA-024, LP (1965), trk# 8 [1962/08/11] Gibson, Bob. Everybody Sing, Vol 3., Riverside RLP-1420, LP (196?), trk# B.06a (Ol' Bill) Gibson, Bob. Sing Out! Reprints, Sing Out, Sof (196?), 5, p19 (Old Bill) Gibson, Bob. I Come for to Sing, Riverside RLP 12-806, LP (1957), trk# A.06 (Ol' Bill) Hinton, Sam. Singing Across the Land, Decca DL 8108, LP (1955), trk# B.02c (Tell Old Bill) Marshall, Charley. Charley Marshall Sings Folk, Ikon IER 109, LP (1956?), trk# A.01 (Old Bill) Mitchell Trio. Reflecting, Mercury MG 20891, LP (1964), trk# B.01 (Tell Old Bill) Sayre, George; and Charlie Stivers. Songs of the Drinking Gourd, Concept CFM 1001, LP (1960), trk# A.05 (Old Bill) Sessions, Bob. Room at the Top, JHU, LP (197?), trk# B.03 (Tell Old Bill) Silverman, Jerry. Silverman, Jerry (ed.) / Folksingers Guitar Guide, Advanced, Oak, Sof (1964), p44 (Tell Old Bill) Skillet Lickers. Gid Tanner and the Skillet Lickers, Rounder 1005, LP (1973), trk# 3 [1927/04/11] (Setting in the Chimney Jamb) Smith, William B.. Shay, Frank (ed.) / My Pious Friends and Drunken Companions and More ..., Dover, Sof (1961/1927), p200 (Dis Mornin' Dis Evenin' So Soon) Van Ronk, Dave. Dave Van Ronk Sings, Vol. 2, Folkways FA 2383, LP (1961), trk# A.04 (Tell Old Bill) Watson, Doc. Watson Family Tradition, Rounder 0129, LP (1977), trk# A.06 (Biscuits)
RECORDING INFO: Sugar Babe Lomax, John A. & Alan Lomax / American Ballads and Folk Songs, MacMillan, Bk (1934), p.153 Duncan, Josh & Ethel Raim (eds) / Anthology of American Folk Music, Oak, Sof (1973), p 82 Lomax, John A. & Alan Lomax / Folk Song USA, Signet, Sof (1966/1947), # 34c Baxter, Robert. Baxter, Robert / Baxter's Finger-Picking Manual, Amsco, sof (1965), p37 Christian, John. Old-Time Banjo Anthology, Vol. 1, Marimac AHS 4, Cas (1991), trk# 22 [1989/06] Diller, Dwight. Piney Woods, Diller YP-007, Cas (199?), trk# B.01 Gum, Dona. Old-Time Banjo Anthology, Vol. 1, Marimac AHS 4, Cas (1991), trk# 10 [1976/12] Hammons, Burl. Hammons Family. A Study of a West Virginia Family's Traditions, Library of Congress AFS L65-L66, LP (1973), trk# 18 [1972/08/05] Hammons Family. Shaking Down the Acorns, Rounder 0018, LP (1973), trk# 4 [1970-72] Kweskin, Jim. Jim Kweskin's America, Reprise 6464, LP (1971), trk# 2 Mainer, J. E. (Joseph Emmet). Legendary J. E. Mainer. Vol 5, Rural Rhythm RRJE 215, LP (197?), trk# B.04 Muller, Eric. Muller, Eric & Barbara Koehler / Frailing the 5-String Banjo, Mel Bay, Sof (1973), p52 Mullennex, Ron. Banjo Legacy, Augusta Heritage AHR 006, LP (1989), trk# B.01b Pace, Eliza. Sharp & Karpeles / English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians II, Oxford, Bk (1932/1917), p357/# 245 [1917/10/06] Renbourn, John. Another Monday, Transatlantic TRA 149, LP (1966), trk# 8 Seeger, Mike; and Alice Gerrard. Mike Seeger and Alice Gerrard, Greenhays GR 704, LP (1980), trk# 6 Sexton, Morgan. Shady Grove, June Appal JA 0066C, Cas (1992), trk# 16 Taussig, Harry. Taussig, Harry / Folk-Style Guitar, Oak, Sof (1973), p 41 Taussig, Harry. Taussig, Harry / Folk-Style Guitar, Oak, Sof (1973), p108
RECORDING INFO CRAWDAD SONG: Leisy, James F. (ed.) / Songs for Pickin' and Singin', Gold Medal Books, sof (1962), p 46 Silverman, Jerry (ed.) / Folksingers Guitar Guide, Advanced, Oak, Sof (1964), p65 Silverman, Jerry (ed) / Flat-Pickers Guitar Guide, Oak, Sof (1963), p24 Lomax, John A. & Alan Lomax / Folk Song USA, Signet, Sof (1966/1947), # 34b Lynn, Frank (ed.) / Songs for Swinging Housemothers, Fearon, Sof (1963/1961), p174 Best, Dick & Beth (eds.) / New Song Fest Deluxe, Charles Hansen, Sof (1971/1948), p 45 Visconti, Carl (ed.) / Paint Creek Folklore Society Song Tune Book, Paint Creek, Sof (1986), p 3 Sing Out! Reprints, Sing Out, Sof (196?), 4, p63 Albert E Brumley's Songs of the Pioneers, Brumley, Fol (1973), 5 Blood, Peter; and Annie Patterson (eds.) / Rise Up Singing, Sing Out, Sof (1992/1989), p151 Luboff, Norman; and Win Stracke / Songs of Man, Prentice-Hall, Bk (1969), p174 Cannon, Gus. Walk Right In, Stax SCD-8603-2, CD (1999), trk# 13 [1963/06/10] (Crawdad Hole) Daniels, Charlotte; and Pat Webb. Charlotte Daniels and Pat Webb, Prestige International INT 13037, LP (196?), trk# B.06 (Crawdad Hole) Forbes, Walter. Folk Song Festival, RCA (Victor) LSP-2670, LP (1963), trk# A.06 Girls of the Golden West. Songs of the West, Old Homestead OHS 143, LP (1981), trk# 11 [1933/07/28] (You Get a Line and I'll Get A Pole) Griffith, Andy. Andy Griffith Shouts the Blues and other Old Timey Songs, Capitol T 1105, LP (1959), trk# A.05 Hinton, Sam. Folk Go-Go, Verve/Folkways FV 9011, LP (1965), trk# 3 Hinton, Sam. Whoever Shall Have Some Good Peanuts, Scholastic SC 7530, LP (1964), trk# A.04 Howard, Clint;, Doc Watson & Fred Price. Old-Time Music at Clarence Ashley's, Part 2, Folkways FA 2359, LP (1963), trk# 10 [1962/04] Hutchison Brothers. Hutchison Brothers, Vetco LP 505, LP (1975), trk# 3 Kweskin, Jim. Swing on a Star, Mountain Railroad MR 52793, LP (1979), trk# 3 (Crawdad Hole) Lewis, Don. Don Lewis Live at the "Three Star", Flight 7, LP (197?), B.04c Lone Star Cowboys. Are You From Dixie? Great Country Brother Teams of the 1930's, RCA (Victor) 8417-4-R, Cas (1988), trk# 5 [1933/08/05] Luckiamute River String Band. Waterbound, Lucks '94, Cas (1994), trk# A.07 (Crawdad Hole) Mellin, Norman. Devil's Box, Devil's Box, Ser, 24/4, p46b(1990) Poplin Family. Poplin Family of Sumter, South Carolina, Folkways FA 2306, LP (1963), trk# A.09 (Crawdad Hole) Rascoe, Moses. Blues, Flying Fish FF-454, LP (1987), trk# 12 Seeger, Pete. Folksingers Guitar Guide, Folkways FI 8354, LP (196?), trk# A.01 Seeger, Pete. Seeger, Pete / American Favorite Ballads, Oak, Fol (1961), p86 Simmons Family. Simmons, Tommy & Jean / Simmons Family Songbook, Simmons, Sof (1974), p18 Smith, Raymond; & Bob Cowan. In the Hills of Home, Marimac 9010, Cas (198?), trk# 5 Stracke, Win. Folk Songs for the Young, Golden Records, LP (1962), trk# B.03 Tarriers. Gather Round, Decca DL-74538, LP (196?), trk# 2 Thomas, W. H.. Kirkland Recordings, Tennessee Folklore Soc. TFS-106, LP (1984), trk# 8 [1939/01/07] Traum, Happy. Traum, Happy / Flat-Picker Country Guitar, Oak, Sof (1973), p 68 Wakefield, Frank. Blues Stay Away From Me, Takoma TAK 7082, LP (1980), trk# 4 Watson, Doc; Clint Howard and Fred Price. Old Timey Concert, Vanguard 107/8, Cas (1987), trk# A.13
RECORDING INFO: Sweet Thing Lomax, John A. & Alan Lomax / Folk Song USA, Signet, Sof (1966/1947), # 34; Duvall, Leone. Randolph, Vance / Ozark Folksongs. Volume III, Humorous & Play-Party ..., University of Missouri, Bk (1980/1946), p198/#443 [1926/11/04]; Waller, Fats (Thomas). Valentine Stomp, RCA (Victor) LPV 525, LP (1966), trk# A.05 [1935/11/29]
RECORDING INFO: What You Gonna Do? Sandburg, Carl / American Songbag, Harcourt Brace Jovan..., Sof (1955/1928), p240 (What Kind of Pants Does the Gambler Wear); Memphis Jug Band. American Skiffle Bands, Folkways FA 2610, LP (1957), trk# 12 [1956/12/05]; White, Josh. Josh White Stories, Vol. 1, ABC Paramount ABC 124, LP (196?/1956), trk# 3; White, Josh. Josh White at Town Hall, Mercury MG 20672, LP (1961), trk# B.04 (What Ya Gonna Do)
RECORDING INFO: Going ‘Round the World Baby Mine 1.Coon Creek Girls. Early Radio Favorites, Old Homestead OHS 142, LP (1982), cut# 10 2.Coon Creek Girls. Banjo Pickin' Girl, Rounder 1029, LP (1978), cut# 16 3.Coon Creek Girls. Going Down The Valley; Vocal & Instrumental Music from the South, New World NW 236, LP (1977), cut# 17 4.Fink, Cathy. Leading Role, Rounder 0223, LP (1985), cut#B.05 5.Hazel And Alice. Hazel Dickens and Alice Gerrard, Rounder 0054, LP (1976), cut# 11 6.Ledford, Lilly Mae. Banjo Pickin' Girl, Greenhays GR 712, LP (1983), cut# 1 7.Rutherford, Ernest; and the Gold Hill Band. Old Cap'n Rabbit, Heritage (Galax) 080, Cas (1989), cut# 9 8.Sexton, Lee "Boy". Whoa Mule, June Appal JA 0051, LP (1987), cut# 8 (Going Round This World) 9.Skirtlifters. Somewhere in Dixie, Skirtlifters, Cas (1987), cut#B.06 (Goin' Around the World (Baby Mine)) 10.Stamper, I.D.. Red Wing, June Appal JA 0010, LP (1977), cut# 8 (Going Round This World) R. D. Burnett & Lynn Woodard, "Going Around the World" (recorded for Gennett 1929, but unissued; on BurnRuth01); Coon Creek Girls, "Banjo-Pickin' Girl" (Vocalion 04413/OKeh 04413, 1938; on GoingDown); Pete Steele, "Goin' Around This World, Baby Mine" (on PSteele01)
RELATED TO: “Baby Mine;” "Mama Don't 'Low" "Crawdad (Song)" “I’m Going Back to Jericho (Mexico)” “Policeman” “Ain’t No Use in Working So Hard” “How Many Biscuits Can You Eat;” “Going round the World Baby Mine/Banjo Pickin’ Girl;” “What You Gonna Do?;” “Sweet Thing;” “Good Times;” “Crow-Fish Man”
OTHER NAMES: “Tell Old Bill;” “Old Bill;” “The Poiceman;” “How Many Biscuits Can You Eat?” “This Morning, This Evening So Soon” “This Morning, This Evening Right Now” “Ain’t No Use in Workin’ So Hard” "Red Hot Breakdown" "Settin' in the Chimney Jamb" “Wagon”
SOURCES: Folk-Songs of America: The Robert Winslow Gordon Collection, 1922-1932:Ceolas; Mudcat Café; Sandburg; Lomax;
NOTES: The song, “This Morning, This Evening So Soon”, is branch of songs closely related to “Crawdad Song” (You get a line I’ll get a pole). “Tell Old Bill,” “The Poiceman,” and “How Many Biscuits Can You Eat?” are versions of “This Morning.” The same song form, used in “Baby Mine” published in 1874 as “Baby Mine” with words by Charles Mackay and music by Achibald Johnson, is similar to the Captain Kidd/Froggy Went A-Courtin’ family of songs. These songs have a repeated part: ("Oh my name is Captain Kidd, as I sailed, as I Sailed") (Froggy went a courtin’ and he did ride un-huh, un-huh); "Sam Hall" ("My name it is Sam Hall, it is Sam Hall"); the hymn "Wondrous Love" ("Oh, what wondrous love this is, O my soul, O my soul").
There are several bluegrass/folk songs that have evolved from Baby Mine with the “baby mine” tag: "Banjo-Pickin' Girl" and “Crawdad Song.” Sometimes there isn’t a tag “I wish I was a Mole (Tempy)” or the tag has been changed to “sugar babe:” “The Policeman;” “How Many Biscuits Can You Eat?”
"Back to Jericho" by Dock Walsh
I'm goin' back to Jericho, sugar babe,
I'm goin' back to Jericho, sugar babe,
I'm goin' back to Jericho,
And I'm getting married 'fore I go, Sugar babe.
Other songs with the same form used the tag: “this morning” for the first two lines. The tag on last line would be: “This morning, this evening, so soon.” This branch of song probably evolved from African-American sources or an unknown minstrel song. Here’s what Sandburg say about "Tell Old Bill:"
One of the early versions of “This Morning, This Evening So Soon” and one of many that just uses “This Morning” as a tag is Ben Harney’s “The Wagon” Version 1:
Standin' on the corner, wasn't doin' no harm, this mornin',
Standin' on the corner, wasn't doin' no harm, oh, this mornin',
Standin' on the corner, wasn't doin' no harm,
When a copper a-grabbed me by my arm
A-this mornin'.
Ben Harney (1871-1938) version is similar to to Bascom Lamar Lundford’s version (See Version 2) of ‘The Dummy Line.” Both versions take the song back to the late 1800’s or early 1900’s. Ben Harney claimed to have written the first ragtime song.
From Folk-Songs of America: The Robert Winslow Gordon Collection, 1922-1932:
After finishing his performance of "The Wagon" Ben Harney (1871-1938) announced to Gordon's recording machine: "This is absolutely the first song published in ragtime; the first song ever written in ragtime. The idea was conceived by Ben Harney, in Louisville, Kentucky." The remainder of his statement was indistinct, but he continued to tell of his central role in the introduction of ragtime to the American public.
In 1924 the New York Times called Harney "a white man who had a fine Negro shouting voice, [who] probably did more to popularize ragtime than any other person." He had heard the "new music" in Louisville, became "adept at it," and brought it to New York, where he appeared at the Weber and Fields Music Hall, introducing it in a "first-class theater"(Berlin, p 49). In recent years ragtime pianist Eubie Blake has asserted that Harney was actually an Afro-American who succeeded in "passing" as white.
In 1918 Harney "offered to leave the profession and forfeit one hundred dollars if anyone could submit a rag predating his own ragtime songs, the earliest being ‘You've Been A Good Old Wagon But You've Done Broke Down' (1895) and ‘Mister Johnson, Turn Me Loose' (1896)" (Berlin, p.49). He was not challenged. But even at the time it was obvious that his primary claim was not for originating the form, but for bringing it to the attention of the public through his vaudeville performances. He went on to a career which included a number of innovative uses of ragtime, such as performing classical piano pieces in ragtime style. He also published the first ragtime piano primer, The Ragtime Instructor, in 1897 (Ewen, pp. 166-67).
Harney was forced to retire in 1923, after a heart attack, and spent his final years in poverty and declining health in Philadelphia (Blesh, pp. 225-30). It is not known when or where Gordon recorded him, but an indistinct announcement on one of the five cylinders which he made seems to place the session on September 9, 1925, about a month before Gordon's first North Carolina recordings of Lewey and Noell. Though it is uncertain when Gordon made the recordings, there is no doubt about his interest in ragtime and in Harney, who was "evidence" for the use of black music in the context of white entertainment. Ragtime's beginnings and popularity represented a recurrent theme in American music—the assimilation of an Afro-American folk form by national popular music. Gordon was interested in other manifestations of this process—minstrel music and spirituals—and in this interest anticipated the thought and viewpoint which many later scholars took towards various forms of jazz and, most recently, rock music.
The song itself is deceptively simple; Harney's syncopated piano accompaniment is more "ragtime" than his singing, although it is hard to tell from this performance how Harney would have sounded with a piano accompaniment. The tune is similar to that of "The Crawdad Song," and almost all the verses can be found in standard folksong collections. For instance, a single collection—Volume III of the Frank C. Brown omnibus from North Carolina—contains at least four songs which have elements of either verse or structure which parallel "The Wagon": "The Dummy Line" (p. 521), "Sugar Babe" (p. 550), and "Went Down Town" and "Standin' On The Street Doin' No Harm" (p. 562). Of course, because Harney published his text in 1895 and performed it frequently for the next thirty years, it is quite possible that at least some of the texts recorded by folksong collectors during the early decades of this century reflect the popularity of Harney's song.
FINAL NOTES: “This Morning, This Evening So Soon” is related to a large group of songs including “Crawdad Song” and other songs ("New River Train" “I Wish I was a Mole” “Froggie Went A-Courtin’” “Mama Don’t Allow” etc.) with the same song form. Most songs are very similar and use a tag at the end of each verse (sugar babe/baby mine/this morning etc.).
Sugar Babe is possibly the origin of the old-time song “The Policeman” popularized by Tommy Jarrell. Sharp & Karpeles collected a version of Sugar Babe (see Version 1) by Eliza Pace in 1917 found in English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians II:
Shoot your dice and have your fun, Sugar Babe (2x)
Run like the devil when the police come, sugar babe.
Here are the lyrics to This Mornin' This Evenin' So Soon/Tell Old Bill:
TELL OLD BILL Sandburg
Tell old Bill, when he leaves home dis mornin',
Tell old Bill, when he leaves home dis evenin',
Tell old Bill, when he leaves home,
To let dem down-tow'n coons alone
Dis mornin', dis evenon', so soon.
Bill left by de alley gate dis mornin',
Bill left by de alley gate dis evenin',
Bill left by de alley gate,
Old Sal says: "Now don' be late,"
Dis mornin', dis evenin', so soon.
Bill's wife was a bakin' bread dis mornin',
Bill's wife was a bakin' bread dis evenin',
Bill's wife was a bakin' bread,
When she got word dat Bill was dead
Dis mornin', dis evenin', so soon.
O dear, dat can't be so, dis mornin',
O dear, dat can't be so, dis evenin',
O dear, dat can't be so;
For Bill left home 'bout a hour ago,
Dis mornin', dis evenin', so soon.
O dear, dat cannot be, dis mornin',
O dear, dat cannot be, dis evenin',
O dear, dat cannot be,
Dey shoot my husband in de firs' degree,
Dis mornin', dis evenin', so soon.
Dey brought Bill home in a hurry-up wagon dis mornin',
Dey brought Bill home in a hurry-up wagon dis evenin,'
Dey brought Bill home in a hurry-up wagon,
Dey brought Bill home wid his toes a-draggin',
Dis mornin', dis evenin', so soon.
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